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Oct 16, 2007 4:54pm
Medium kgilmer 215 posts

Topic: BUG SDK / SDK installation

Yes, PDE is a feature that should be available via the update manager. Or you can download "Eclipse Classic" from Eclipse.org. With version 3.3 they did away with PDE being installed by default.

Oct 16, 2007 2:02pm
rbpasker 22 posts

Topic: Suggestion Box / Suggestions Wanted!

the problem with Jython is that when calling real java objects from Jython, is that they pythony data objects have to be marshaled into java objects, and vice versa. you can’t simply pass the objects back and forth between java and jython by reference. for some apps that may not make much of a difference, but its a good thing to keep in mind.

Oct 16, 2007 1:11pm
Medium bballantine 56 posts

Topic: Suggestion Box / Suggestions Wanted!

Hey Guys,

This is my first post on the Bug Beta forums (I'm shy, I guess), but I'm the lead web developer here at Bug and responsible for pretty much everything web related.

I'm a big fan of scripting languages, especially ruby and python (buglabs.net is ror), so the ideas on this thread are exciting. I also happen to be smack in the middle of getting python to run on the BUG.

There are a number of different ways to do this, but the approach I've taken is to use Jython. This way apps written in python can work within OSGi just like the BUG apps written in Java. I'm not sure about cpu usage (currently I'm using the embedded approach, which is probably slower than pure java or compiled jython), but storage-wise, Jython is just over 1MB.

In a few days I'll have an example app on BUGnet as well as a tutorial on the wiki. If any of you want more technical details before the app and tutorial are ready, post to this topic and I'll respond. Lastly, I think getting Jython all figured out should open the door on getting ruby via JRuby working on the BUG.

As for functional programming languages? Although not purely functional, python does implement a few very useful functional paradigms, such as binding functions to variables and passing functions as parameters. This kind of thing is VERY handy once you get used to using it.
Oct 16, 2007 1:11pm
robertp 4 posts

Topic: Suggestion Box / Suggestions Wanted!

rbpasker
i love functional programming. very expressive.

I was kidding ;)

also, embedded systems are as memory and address space-constrained as they used to be. moore's law has finally caught up with the cycles and storage necessary to drive complex embedded applications, so nickel and dime-ing over a meg here or there is not a big deal when a 1Gig SD card can be had for $20. that moore's law has finally caught up is what makes the bug itself even possible.


I agree with that for the most part, although when shipping an embedded Linux system with a 2G CF card (a recent activity), I still had to worry about memory (RAM). The SD of which you speak is, I believe, used for storage rather than RAM? On that product we run several applications concurrently, one of them in a JVM. RAM is tight, and not nearly as cheap as CF/SD/etc. So yeah, I'll nickel and dime there.


Cheers,

R
Oct 16, 2007 1:00pm
rbpasker 22 posts

Topic: Suggestion Box / Suggestions Wanted!

... are NOT as …

Oct 16, 2007 12:59pm
rbpasker 22 posts

Topic: Suggestion Box / Suggestions Wanted!

i love functional programming. very expressive.

what about Groovy and Grails?

http://groovy.codehaus.org/
http://grails.codehaus.org/

also, embedded systems are as memory and address space-constrained as they used to be. moore’s law has finally caught up with the cycles and storage necessary to drive complex embedded applications, so nickel and dime-ing over a meg here or there is not a big deal when a 1Gig SD card can be had for $20. that moore’s law has finally caught up is what makes the bug itself even possible.

Oct 16, 2007 12:49pm
robertp 4 posts

Topic: Suggestion Box / Suggestions Wanted!

koolatron
gah! functional programming :)


Man, I couldn't agree more ;)

koolatron
I like the idea of a scripting language like perl or ruby in the BUG, but I have a hard time understanding just how it'd fit into what we've got.


I see it like this: First, as I'm sure we're all aware, in the F/OSS communities, there tends to be a kind of (ahem) "reluctance" to use Java. Of course this is not true universally - in fact the most exciting things to happen with Java for the last few years have been from organizations like Apache/Jakarta. Once it's more public/visible to those individuals and organizations that share the reluctance to use Java that the sanctioned model for Bug apps requires Java, I suspect there will be some backlash.

Second, although OSGi is designed for resource-constrained environments, a JVM is a JVM. And that means Hello World with or without OSGi takes more resources (memory) than significant applications in e.g. Ruby or Python.

Third, I'm a strong proponent of IOC/service-oriented architectures, and while OSGi isn't a perfect academic representation, it's pretty darn good. I am interested in seeing how useful it (IOC/service-orientation) is in dynamically typed languages. And the Bug seems like a nice platform for it.

Fourth, at the OSGi expert group meeting I attended, there was significant interest expressed in a "micro" OSGi platform. One of the proponents was Aonix (understandably), who sell a high-performance embedded JVM. Once again, this brings me back to non-Java "OSGi"; smaller, less resource consumption.

I suppose my point is that scripting or dynamic languages (I suspect) will be a desired alternative for a number of folks who would like to play with the Bug. If you buy that assertion, the next logical step is to decide whether to give those folks the same kind of guidelines in terms of application development and deployment.

Cheers,

R
Oct 16, 2007 12:04pm
Medium finsprings 268 posts

Topic: BUG SDK / XML parsing

I used your built-in XmlParser class to parse my log file. It was unhappy when I used the parse(InputStream/Reader?) method but when I read my file line by line using a BufferReader and passed the lines to the XmlParser.parse(String) method it was happy.

Oct 16, 2007 10:33am
Medium agordon 74 posts

Topic: Applications / Application Licensing

There is a good article on wikipedia pertaining to dual licencing (with good external resources, etc.). Maybe it brings up some helpful points, or maybe it will just muddy this discussion even more. I just figured I’d point it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-licensed

Oct 16, 2007 10:08am
Medium mcholerton 54 posts

Topic: Meet & Greet / More testers joining!

Hey luinstra – great to have you! Let us know if you have any questions.

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